Greeneyedpea: Thank you Robert for this. I agree.
I don’t want to mix up “conservatives” with “religious folks”, but do you have any thoughts on that? Most of the time, the conservatives that I run into are “born again” or “evangelical” Christians, and they are usually the most hateful, judgmental crowd around. I was in the evangelical movement for years, but left, b/c I could not stand the fear-based ideology – the list of no-nos, or you’ll go to hell, the fake kindnesses while you’re stabbed in the back in private, etc. Bitter…maybe. I think Jesus won’t recognize most of them.
A weird example: Many in the rural town I lived in for a while have the bumper sticker: “Proud to be an American”. I have always thought that to be odd. Pride is an emotion one should have for an accomplishment, or hard work, or a talent that is nurtured with practice. We have no say in where we are born.
If one is born in America, I think the phrase should be “Blessed to be an American” (in essence, giving thanks to God who predetermined that your life would start in America), or “Grateful to be an American”. And you would think that those conservatives that have this bumper sticker would agree with this, but no they are proud, damn it.
The ironic thing is that when I bring up an immigrant who became a naturalized citizen as being the shining example of someone who truly can say “Proud to be an American” (i.e. they worked for it via studying and passing a test most born-Americans could not pass, by the way), their face turns, and its clear they don’t like immigrants of any form (legal or illegal, especially), and there is no acknowledgment of the work this person has put in to become an American citizen, and the worst here “They are not ‘true’ Americans anyway”. Ugh. I know these are random, disjointed thoughts, but I find conservatives to be those patriotic, evangelical types. And it’s nauseating.
I am a bit religious myself, but you will probably not find a more secular Christian.
The Protestant fundamentalists are particularly horrible. I might still let them post here, but most are economic conservatives too, so they will segregate out on their own.
Mr. Pence is awful. The anti-abortion crowd makes me sick. I don’t like discrimination against homosexuals or transgenders. Most of these fundies are very hateful people, and they assume the worst about everyone because they are concrete thinkers. They’re frankly full of hate. They and I simply do not get along, mostly because they think I am an immoral scum. Plus most of them think liberals are evil and should be killed. This is one of the nastiest forms of stupid religion out there. It’s not as bad as fundamentalist Islam, but it’s up there.
It’s probably better described as just stupid than any other adjective, but as I pointed out in another post, people who engage in a lot of stupid, illogical thinking are often hateful and support a lot of unpleasant projects.
These fundies have a very bizarre opinion about Catholics which borders on the delusional. Their opinion about Catholics is false and highly illogical. They typically state that Catholics are not Christians. This is simply false. Catholics are the original Christians! For 1,500 years, Catholics were the only Christians on this planet. I was going to a heavily Hispanic Catholic church here in town for a while, and they were so much better than those fundie Protestants, it was not even funny.
I simply do not think I could get along with someone like that. It’s just not going to work, sorry. Sooner or later they will start calling me evil, and I don’t appreciate that.
My mother goes to a mainline Protestant church (Methodist), and I am OK with that.
Patriotardism
Patriotards can probably post here, but almost all of them are also economic conservatives, so they are going to self-segregate out like the religious folks.
American Patriotardism is just dumb. It’s based on this very stupid idea that there is something inherently good about America, it’s culture, its history, its politics, its military and its foreign policy.
There is nothing inherently good about the United States! Or any other country for that matter. For Chrissake. A nation is only as good as its leaders. And no culture is inherently good. Good cultures can go bad and bad cultures can go good in a heartbeat.
These Patriotards people also believe in “My country, right or wrong!” This is Patriotardism. It’s stupid! If my country is wrong, I am going to oppose it, dammit! If I dislike the culture, I will oppose that culture and work to change it. If the politics blows, I will dislike the politics and work to evolve a better politics. If the government is crap, I will hate the state and try to throw that group out and put in a better group. If my nation’s history is bad, I will admit it, regret our bad behavior and work towards changing my country’s behavior so my descendants do not have to apologize for our awful behavior.
There is nothing inherently good about the US military! I assure you. A military is only as good as its generals and civilian leadership. If those are terrible, they will give orders for the military to do some pretty bad things. US soldiers are not inherently good! They are as good as their generals and civilian leadership. If they are given lousy missions to carry out, US soldiers may very well end up doing a lot of bad things. And this has been the case in recent history. A soldier is like an automaton, a robot. He simply does what he is told to do.
Many nations have had decent militaries that turned monstrous and vice versa in history. It could and actually has happened here. We were on the side of good in World War 2, I will admit it, but in Vietnam or Iraq. It is idiocy to support every war your country wages in the name of “support the troops”! If the soldiers have been given a malign mission to carry out, as in Iraq, they should not be supported!
The war must be opposed on the grounds that it was of malign intent, and the soldiers should be supported in the sense of getting them out of that wicked war where they will be killed and injured for an evil cause. The best way of all to support the troops is to keep them from getting killed! I cannot think of a better way to support the troops than to call for an end to a diabolical and nasty war with a malign agenda.
There is indeed an ideology behind the US military. The Pentagon is not a non-ideological institution. Having studied Pentagon ideology for a long time, I assure you that the ideology of the US military is not good at all. Actually it is quite bad. Therefore, the US military must not be supported in its bad objectives. And its ideology needs to be changed to support positive and decent objectives instead of nasty and vicious ones.
Hatred of immigrants simply for being immigrants is just morally wrong. And it is caused by stupid thinking. Of course an immigrant is a real American. If he has become naturalized and is a US citizen, I say, “Welcome to my country, my fellow American!” I actually say this to some immigrants who have become citizens. I am happy that they have come to my country and liked it enough to become a citizen alongside me! Many of them also like the better things about our culture that were not present in their nation, though we are approaching the banana republic and tinpot dictatorship and generally awful politics and even culture of the Third World ourselves now with our recent descent into fascism.
Why hate a legal immigrant just for being an immigrant? They did it legally and fair and square. They stood in line and often waited for quite a few years. My ancestors were immigrants too. They came from Europe. Why were those immigrants ok but these new ones not ok? Why were my ancestors real Americans but recent Americans are not real Americans? That sounds like lousy, stupid thinking. It seems to fail a number of logic tests on its surface. This is simply emotionally driven, petty, irrational and hateful prejudice. It is a stupid and illogical thinking style that is also harmful to many innocent human beings. It’s pretty disgusting.
