Rantus writes:
“Whether or not I would like to live under Russian rule is irrelevant. Why this is an important question?”
Er, because the majority of Ukrainians don’t, that’s why. They were polled and it came up that they want a single, unified state. Kind of like how Canada wants all the benefits of being America’s neighbor while not being American.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
Ukraine stood to become very rich in the position of being a go-between state. They would have raked in massive amounts of money facilitating energy and goods transfer between Russia and the west. They were also on a solid path as an industrial manufacturer. But Russia didn’t like that, and now all that is gone.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
Now there’s only the gangster Putin and his agenda, same as it was before under the gangster USSR. Ukraine has no future now, because their real self determination was just pulled out from underneath them.
For somebody who is basically a Russian cheerleader, you seem to not really know much about Russians and how they really do things. If he steps foot in Poland, or rather when he does, what will you say then?
These are all just Western lies. Let’s go through them one by one.
“Whether or not I would like to live under Russian rule is irrelevant. Why this is an important question?”
Er, because the majority of Ukrainians don’t, that’s why. They were polled and it came up that they want a single, unified state.
The people in the East sure don’t. Maybe they did at one point, but no way to they want to live in one state now. No way. In Donetsk, Kharkiv and Lugansk, the vast majority of people want to separate from Ukies on a permanent basis. They don’t even want federalism. And even those folks will not be living under Russian rule, although apparently most of them wanted to do just that recently. They will be living under the rulers of their own state, Novorussia.
I have read reports from Ukie soldiers that said that 75% of people in the towns they go into support the rebels, 5% are undecided and 20% are pro-Ukie. And that was a while back before things got really ugly. It must surely be higher now.
Crimea also wants to be part of Russia. They voted 97% to join. They want to be ruled by Russia. Is that ok with the West.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
The commenter is playing games with language to trick people. Western propaganda always does this. Here there is an attempt to conflate the results of a poll of the entire Ukraine with the feelings of those in the Donbass. I am quite certain that most Ukrainians at the moment want to live in a single state.
But no way does Kharkiv, Lugansk and Donetsk and neither does Transcarpathia or Crimea for that matter. Now as far as oblast by oblast for the rest of the Ukraine, I am not sure. But there has been guerrilla war in Kherson and Zaporozhye for a while now. People from Kharkiv, Kherson, Zaporozhye and Kharkiv come to the Donbass, gain fighting experience and then go back to their own regions and start guerrilla war. I would be interested to see a poll about how Odessa, Kherson and Zaporozhye feel about being ruled by the Nazis.
Ukraine stood to become very rich in the position of being a go-between state. They would have raked in massive amounts of money facilitating energy and goods transfer between Russia and the west. They were also on a solid path as an industrial manufacturer.
All of these are lies. The EU’s package to the Ukraine was a poison gift. Ukraine would have had to shut down her entire industrial economy, which would then be bought up on the cheap by Western capitalists. One condition was a doubling of gas prices and a 50% cut in pensions. How does that groovy austerity taste, Ukies?
The Ukies owe $17 billion, mostly to Western banks. The West was going to loan them billions more or less so they could pay off the $17 billion they already owe. Putin estimates it will take $160 billion to bring Ukraine up to European standards. He is right. The thing is, the West is simply not going to pay that bill. The future for the Ukies is very bleak.
They have been facilitating gas transfers to Europe forever now. Where are the riches? The Ukies owe Russia $5 billion for gas. Mostly what the Ukies have been doing for a long time now is siphoning off Russian gas from the pipeline. In other words, the Ukies have been stealing Russian gas for years now, and they are still broke.
Russia already does a lot of trade with the West. Anyway, only 35-40% of Ukies supporting joining the West and the EU. Most of the others wanted to join the Russian Customs Union or were undecided. So the proposal to join the West didn’t even have majority support. Russia offered a massively better deal. Yanukovitch originally wanted to go with the West (he and Putin never got along), but he started to get cold feet when he learned of the horrific terms of the agreement which would have resulted in the debasement and colonization of the Ukrainian economy by the predatory West. The deal with Russia was in the spirit of solidarity, not predation, so Yanukovitch went with Putin’s deal.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
It is Western propaganda. Nothing written above is true.
Ukraine has no future now, because their real self determination was just pulled out from underneath them.
Oh now the West are champions of self-determination! Does the Donbass and Crimea have self-determination too? If not, why not?
Putin isn’t going to conquer Ukraine and make it a part of Russia. He’s not stupid. Western Ukraine could never really be conquered anyway.
If he steps foot in Poland, or rather when he does, what will you say then?
He isn’t going to invade Poland. This is the Putin is Hitler lie. Putin isn’t Hitler. Why would Putin invade Poland? Was Poland part of the USSR? This is crazy. No way in Hell would Putin do that, and he has no need to anyway. Also Poland is NATO, and treaties say that a Russian invasion sets off an automatic war between Russia and NATO. In which case, by the way, I would be supporting NATO of course.
