Battling Bucs : State By State Bucco History Part IX
By Kipper
@pghsportsforum
This is the continuation of my ATP (All Time Pirates) series but I have opted to change the name to make it a little more obvious what is covered in the topic. As a quick recap this is a running series of mine that digs into the Pirates past and takes a look at it from various different angles. This particular exercise is looking at it from the player's place of birth. Each US state, the District of Columbia and each foreign country will be investigated in the attempt to build a team. For more specifics check out the introductory post here.
In part IX I will continue looking at the Pirates pitchers by place of birth and this focus on class D locations. Class Dare the first that will have actual cuts. Locations must have between 14 and 20 players to qualify. There are a total of 9 locations that qualified leaving just 11 for the final three classifications.
Alabama
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Bob Veale
#2: Rip Sewell
#3: Whitey Glazner
#4: Jim Nelson
RA: Brian Meadows
Reserves
SP/RP: Bennie Daniels
SP/RP: Herb Kelly
SP/RP: Kyle McPherson
RP: George Grant
RP: Jay Tibbs
RP: Clay Carroll
RP: Elmer Tutwiler
RP: Dixie McArthur
Notes: Veale pitched for the Pirates from 1962-1972 and is one of the best pitchers in Pirates history so he starts out the Alabama staff on a strong note. The number 2 on the staff is another strong pitcher and actually threw more innings with the Pirates than Veale. Sewell pitched for the Pirates from 1938-1949 and had a few great seasons mixed in with a bunch of average ones. The rotation loses some steam after that as Glazner was a starter for only parts of 3 years and Nelson was a swingman for two but both had good results in their limited action. Meadows isn’t typically someone you’d call a relief ace but he was roughly a league average reliever for the Pirates in the early 2000s so considering the state of those teams that says something.
The reserves don’t feature much in the way of innings as only the top 4 threw more than 10. Daniels actually threw more innings than Nelson but his 5.84 ERA was very poor. Kelly and McPherson each got some starts mixed in with relief appearances but with limited innings. Grant spent one year with the Pirates as a reliever in 1939 and produced poor results. The rest are players with just a brief cup of coffee though they were all at least respectable in their short stay.
Florida
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Rick Rhoden
#2: Tim Wakefield
#3: Jeff D'Amico
#4: Bronson Arroyo
RA: Bob Patterson
Reserves
SP/RP: John Hope
RP: Chris Resop
RP: Sean Burnett
RP: Mudcat Grant
RP: Scott Ruskin
RP: Michael Crotta
RP: Frank Barrett
RP: Chris Volstad
Notes: Rhoden pitched for the Pirates from 1979-1986 and was a solid above average starter during that period. Wakefield of course went on to have a very good career with the Boston Red Sox but in his short time with the Pirates he performed more like a back of the rotation pitcher than the middle of the rotation one he was with Boston. D’Amico pitched one season with the Pirates and was more or less what he was for his entire career a serviceable starter you could put in the rotation and not be embarrassed by. Arroyo would go on to have a decent career with the Reds but with the Pirates at the start of his career he was roughed up pretty badly. Patterson pitched for the Pirates from 1989-1992 and was a solid middle reliever in that time having two good season and two merely ok ones.
The interesting names amongst the reserves are Burnett and Resop. Burnett pushed Arroyo for the 4th starter job (despite only having 13 starts) and Resop pushed for the relief ace role. There is nothing special about either pitcher but they give Florida some solid depth. Behind them Grant and Ruskin also pitched decently but in limited innings and John Hope posted poor numbers. The rest of the staff feature pitchers who barely played for the Pirates with Volstad being the latest addition having just pitched last season.
Iowa
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Jon Lieber
#2: Bill Hoffer
#3: Mace Brown
#4: Hal Smith
RA: Tony Watson
Reserves
SP: Cy Slapnicka
SP: Gus Thompson
SP: Don Wengert
SP: Dazzy Vance
SP/RP: King Cole
RP: Joel Hanrahan
RP: Phil Slattery
RP: Pat Bohen
Notes: The rotation lacks any real top shelf talent though Lieber was a decent middle of the rotation type arm for the Pirates back in the mid 1990s. Hoffer pitched pre-1900 and is also on the Iowa bench but did his real work as a pitcher as he was a good starter for the Pirates for a couple seasons. Mace Brown pitched for the Pirates in the 1930s and 40s and served primarily as a reliever, but he would get the occasional start. He actually has the most innings on the staff and very respectable numbers but his status as a relief pitcher starting hurts his case. Smith pitched for the Pirates primarily in 1933 and 1934 with a couple other brief appearances and in one year he was good and one year not so good. He split his time fairly evenly between starting and relieving and had fairly average numbers. Watson vs Hanrahan is probably the best contest yet for a pitching spot and I’m still not convinced I went the right direction here but Watson has more innings and even a slightly better ERA so he gets the ever so slight nod.
Other than Hanrahan there isn’t much amongst the reserves. Slapnicka, Thompson and Cole each threw 40 some innings in one season for the Pirates in the early 1900s but none pitched all that well. The rest only have a few innings a piece and aside from Slattery who didn’t allow a run in 8 innings they all pitched rather poorly.
Mexico
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Francisco Cordova
#2: Oliver Perez
#3: Esteban Loaiza
#4: Jose Silva
RA: Ricardo Rincon
Reserves
SP: Hector Fajardo
SP/RP: Alfonso Pulido
SP/RP: Vicente Palacios
RP: Elmer Dessens
RP: Enrique Romo
RP: Joakim Soria
RP: Rosario Rodriguez
RP: Dennys Reyes
Notes: Cordova pitched for the Pirates from 1996-2000 and though that time is often looked at as having no talent Cordova was a very good pitcher with the Pirates. Cordova was arguably the staff ace on the 1997 freak show team that almost won the division. Oliver Perez pitched for the Bucs from 2003-06 and in 2004 he had what is arguably the best season by a Pirates pitcher during the entire 20 year losing streak. He was sensational that one season but during the others not so much. Loaiza and Silva were two more members of those mid 90s teams with Loaiza being a solid back of the rotation guy and Silva serving as more of a swingman. Serving as the relief ace is yet another mid 90s guys (I’m starting to see a pattern) in Rincon. Rincon played for the Pirates for just two seasons but posted very strong numbers while serving as a set up man.
Three of the reserve pitchers have thrown over 100 innings for the Pirates. Enrique Romo has the most innings in that group and proved to be a good challenger to Rincon for the relief ace role but lost out despite more innings due to Rincon having two truly great years. Palacios is next on the list and was Silva’s top challenger for the 4th starter job but with similar numbers he lost out due to less innings. Dessens is the last of the trio and another mid 90s guy but pitched awful posting an ERA above 6. Of the remaining guys Soria is the most notable as his numbers were great in a very short stretch (26.2 innings).
Michigan
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Frank Miller
#2: Dick Littlefield
#3: Jim Hughey
#4: Luke Hamlin
RA: Jason Grilli
Reserves
SP/RP: Dennis Ribant
SP/RP: Ross Powell
SP/RP: Harry Gardner
RP: Jack Wisner
RP: George Brunet
RP: Don Gross
RP: Mark Dewey
RP: Roger Mason
Notes: Miller pitched for the Pirates during the dead ball era so while his 2.75 ERA looks spectacular it was only around league average for his era. Littlefield pitched for the Pirates during the lean years of the 1950s and while those teams had some immense talent (as evident by 1960) Littlefield wasn’t one of them and instead served as rotation filler though he did do an admirable job. Hughey was a pre-1900 pitcher for the Pirates and while its tough to analyze numbers from them it doesn’t appear he was all that good but pickings are slim at this point. Hamlin pitched for the Pirates in 1942 and had a respectable season as a back of the rotation type. Relief ace Jason Grilli should be known to everyone here as he was one of Searage’s reclamation projects that went on to be a very successful closer for the Pirates for a couple seasons.
Dennis Ribant has a good case to be included in the back of the rotation but he just narrowly lost out to Hughey and Hamlin though it could really be any of them here in the reserves. Mason and Gross each threw over 100 innings and were decent relievers but they were no match for Grilli’s resume. Dewey and Wisner are two more good relievers with 50+ innings but though there numbers are competitive with Grilli they don’t have the innings. Gardner and Powell pitched over 20 innings with middling results and Bruent pitched 16.2 with good results but of course innings restrict his case.
New Jersey
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Charlie Morton
#2: Cookie Cuccurullo
#3: Fred Green
#4: King Brady
RA: Vin Mazzaro
Reserves
SP: The Only Nolan
SP/RP: Eddie O'Brien
RP: Ron Villone
RP: Junior Walsh
RP: Ray Steineder
RP: Dan Miceli
RP: Johnny O'Brien
RP: Joe Martinez
Notes: I’m sure its funny to some to see Charlie Morton listed as the staff ace and indeed it isn’t a good sign for New Jersey but with 800+ innings and number befitting a back of the rotation starter it’s the best the state can muster. Cuccurullo pitched for the Pirates in the 1940s and though he posted a high ERA of 4.55 his 170 innings is enough to earn him the two spot in the rotation. Fred Green was primarily a reliever for the Pirates but he did start one game and the fact he pitched well in 100+ innings is enough to get him in the rotation. Finally King Brady who was excellent over 25 innings for the Pirates takes the 4th spot in the face of weak competition. Mazzaro pitched for the Pirates in 2013-14 and was a serviceable middle reliever earning him the relief ace role with New Jersey.
Junior Walsh and Dan Miceli actually have the second and third most innings on the staff respectively (along with a handful of starts) but with ERAs in the mid to high 5s the results just weren’t there to support them making the team. Ron Villone is a similar story with an ERA of 5.81 but at 93 IP he doesn’t even have the playing time argument. O’Biren and Steineder are yet even more similar cases, though with under 60 innings their 5+ ERA immediately sank them from consideration. The remaining three, Nolan, O’Brien and Martinez, actually have very respectable numbers but lack the innings necessary. Overall this is a rather weak staff with few appealing options.
North Carolina
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Lee Meadows
#2: Jim Bibby
#3: Don Cardwell
#4: Johnny Lanning
RA: Ron Blackburn
Reserves
SP: Whammy Douglas
SP/RP: Bill Evans
SP/RP: Ryan Vogelsong
SP/RP: Bill Bell
RP: Johnny Meador
RP: Ben Wade
RP: Brian Smith
RP: Brian Bass
Notes: The names may not show it but this is a very solid rotation with all 4 starters having 500+ IP and an ERA in the mid 3s. No superstars but quality the whole way through. Meadows pitched for the Pirates for most of the 1920s and gets the ace designation due to longevity as he has over 1200 IP with the Pirates. Bibby and Cardwell pitched in the 70s/80s and 60s respectively and have very little separating them as both were slightly better than league average starters with the Pirates. In the 4th spot Johnny Lanning has similar numbers to the second and third starters but is cemented in the 4th spot due to serving more as a swingman than a starter in the 1940s. With only 108 IP Blackburn is a weak relief ace for this quality staff but he was a solid reliever for the Pirates during the 1958 and 1959 seasons.
Vogelsong is the most notable reserve as he has 280.1 IP and will add to that total this season. His career numbers with the Pirates will likely improve this year but overall they will still likely remain poor. Bill Evans is the only other reserve with 50+ IP and he was a substandard swingman back in the nineteen teens. As for the rest Whammy Douglas and Ben Wade were good in their short time with the Pirates while Brian Bass and Brian Smith were awful but amazingly did manage to beat out three others who were some how even worse than them.
Oklahoma
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Cy Blanton
#2: Tommie Sisk
#3: Elmer Ponder
#4: Jeff Suppan
RA: Chief Yellowhorse
Reserves
SP: Jesse Petty
SP: Bernie Duffy
SP/RP: Ray Starr
SP/RP: Bob Muncrief
RP: Casey Sadler
RP: John Gelnar
RP: Ted Power
RP: Clint Sodowsky
Note: Oklahoma ended up with a very strong lineup considering their small pool of players and while the pitching staff isn’t that good its still a fairly decent one. Blanton pitched for the Pirates in the 1930s and while he was a quality pitcher every season his 1935 was an excellent season and would have been Cy Young worthy had that existed back then. Sisk pitched for the Pirates for 7 years in the 1960s and with the exception of 1964 when he was awful he was around a league average arm. The guys behind him have better numbers but he has the longevity with 752 IP second only to Blanton. Ponder racked up most of his innings with the Pirates in 1920 but spent parts of three other seasons with the club. He pitched very well with the Pirates putting up top of the rotation numbers across 289.1 innings. Suppan only pitched for the Pirates for part of but was excellent in that limited time. Yellowhorse pitched for the Pirates in the early 1920s and over the course of 126 innings was around a league average pitcher.
Jesse Petty is a 5th starter who is very well qualified for the rotation but missed out in a numbers game. Sowdosky and Power have quality numbers out of the pen but put them up in only around 50 innings a piece. Ryan Starr is the only other reserve with 40+ IP and he pitched rather poorly to the tune of a 5.33 ERA. The rest of the staff played little and performed poorly.
Virginia
Rotation and Relief Ace
#1: Deacon Phillippe
#2: Todd Ritchie
#3: Jimmy Anderson
#4: Bill Powell
RA: Mike Williams
Reserves
SP: Jesse Jefferson
RP: Rick Langford
RP: Bob Porterfield
RP: Al Holland
RP: Brad Clontz
RP: John Wasdin
RP: Chuck Churn
RP: Don Williams
Notes: Phillippe pitched for the Pirates for 12 years at the beginning of the 20th century. He was more or less the team’s ace for the first half of his career but took on lesser roles as his career wound down. He is one of the better pitchers in franchise history. Todd Ritchie pitched for the Pirates from 1999-2001 and was a quality arm at a time when the Pirates were lacking them. Anderson pitched for the Pirates around the same time as Ritchie and while he wasn’t a high quality arm he was a back of the rotation type who ate up innings. Powell posted some excellent numbers with the Pirates (1909-1910) but only threw 82.1 innings limiting his overall value. Mike Williams played for the Pirates from 1998-2003 serving as the closer for most of that time and while he would frequently make situations more stressful than they needed to be he would usually get the job done and racked up a lot of saves.
The Virignia club has a few quality relief pitcher arms in Porterfield, Holland and Clotz. Porterfield was Williams biggest challenger but ended up getting beaten out as he had just a third the amount of innings. Holland and Clotz had even fewer innings coming in around 60 a piece. The rest of the reserves don’t offer much but they at least give the team some depth.
Power Rankings
9. New Jersey
The big issue here is that at this level of the competition Charlie Morton just doesn’t cut it as a staff ace. He’s a solid pitcher to have in a rotation but not at the top of it.It doesn’t help that the group behind him has just barely over 400 IP between them. The reserves don’t do much either as despite having the second most innings of any reserve group in the class there just aren’t any quality depth pieces.
8. Iowa
There is a sizable jump in talent between New Jersey and the rest of the field but coming in at the bottom of the rest is Iowa. Iowa is hurt primarily by two things. Jon Lieber doesn’t stack up well as an ace compared to the rest of the class and the depth on the team with the exception of Joel Hanrahan is severely lacking. Other than those two points Iowa’s pitching staff compares fairly well with the next handful of teams on this list.
7. Florida
Rick Rhoden is a solid ace atop the rotation which is what ultimately led to Florida edging out Iowa but the staff is missing a solid #2 behind him and the rotation is filled with merely decent starters. In the relief ace role Patterson is just another average type guy instead of a standout. The reserves are respectable but are lacking any true impact relative to their peers. The overall problem is the stregnth of the staff behind Rhoden just isn’t here.
6. Michigan
The rotation for Michigan is weaker than that of Florida’s as the team’s feature similar 2 through 4s with Rhoden being a stronger ace than Frank Miller. However Michigan makes up the difference by having a very good relief ace in Jason Grilli and what is quite arguably the strongest assortment of reserves in the class. The lack of a top notch ace and any strong #2 types behind him is what ultimately limits their ceiling.
5. Mexico
He is often overlooked but Cordova was legitimately a good pitcher for the Pirates back in the 90s and compared to the competition is a very solid ace in this class. Oliver Perez may be known as a bit of a head case but his one spectacular season is enough to make him a very solid #2. That top of the rotation is what vaults Mexico into the middle of the pack but the weaknesses behind them is what prevents them from rising any higher.
4. North Carolina
There is a bit of separation between the top 4 teams and the next 4 teams in this class but with in those groups of 4 the differences are small. North Carolina has a solid staff headed by Lee Meadows and Jim Bibby along with two fine starters occupying the 3 and 4 spots. What they are lacking though is a good relief ace and any real depth behind that strong rotation.
3. Virginia
Sitting atop Virginia’s rotation is Deacon Phillippe who is one of the best pitchers in Pirates history. Phillippe alone is a giant boost to the Virginia squad but there is solid depth behind him. Todd Ritchie makes for a solid #2 and while Anderson and Powell have their faults they are decent back end guys. The team is also boosted by its strong set of reserves who along with Michigan and the yet to be listed Oklahoma is one of three strongest in the class.
2. Oklahoma
Oklahoma’s rotation is the deepest in the class featuring 4 strong starters with a solid 5th one in reserve. Blanton, Sisk, Ponder and Suppan will ensure that Oklahoma has the advantage in a pitching matchup more often than not. The team also boosts a solid reliever in Chief Yellowhorse and quality depth. What prevents Oklahoma from cracking the top spot though is for as good of a pitcher as their ace Blanton is his resume is no match for the ace of the team on top.
1. Alabama
Though it proved to be awfully close the dynamic duo of Bob Veale and Rip Sewell proved too much for any other staff to overcome. Veale is probably almost in everyone’s mind a top 10 pitcher in Pirates history and Sewell probably finds himself in a lot of top 20s. The depth beyond this star studded duo doesn’t compare to some of the other top staffs in this class but it is still pretty good and the greatness of the top 2 is just enough to allow it to stand up for the top spot in the rankings.