Interview With Hollie McNish – Dove’s Latest Campaign Uses Poetry to Spread the Word

By Cleverbuttons @cleverbuttons

Hi All,

Happy Wednesday and too celebrate here is the latest installment that I like to call – “Dove are Hero’s!”. For the latest stage in Doves war against Low Self Esteem in children, your women and adults; they have commissioned critically-acclaimed poet Hollie McNish. Hollie has created two beautiful and lyrically mind bending poems that encourage confidence and self-esteem. You can see the poems bellow – enjoy them!

I was delighted to get the chance to interview Hollie and ask her what she thinks about this collaboration and why the work is so important – here is the outcome of the interview!


I have been an avid follower of Dove’s campaigns over the years. Firstly because they are so important for our body confidence but also because they are so creative. The incorporation of poetry is perfect for me as I am a writer. The first thing I want to know is what your initial thoughts were about this project?

Well, all I knew initially was that Dove wanted me to write some poems on self-esteem, any aspect which was important to me. I wasn’t sure how they were going to use it within the Self Esteem campaign. I really like that they kept it so simple, just the voice or the voice and words for the video. I’m glad you liked that too!

Big Smacking Kiss was penned as a look at how we change from being a child when we don’t have body hang ups, to being adults where we are judged upon our looks first. Do you worry about your daughter growing up in a world obsessed with being conventionally “beautiful”?

I don’t think it’s the whole world, there are places that are different to the UK, US etc. But here, yes. I worry. All the time. It’s not only the conventional beauty ideal, it’s the focus on beauty altogether. And I don’t think children have body hang ups because they think of their body as useful rather than a thing to be seen. They are right! They want to learn to use it, to climb to the top branch of the tree, to spin well, to dance, to run faster. But I think adults do judge kids on looks, as hard as it might be to admit that.

Every time someone meets my daughter, they either comment on her ‘beautiful’ hair or ‘pretty’ clothes. I know they’re being nice and I do it too, I know I do, but even at 2 years old little girls are complemented mainly on their looks, little boys on what they do. It’s horrible. I try my hardest to see my body how she sees hers now; as a means to have fun. Her legs are to dance, her bum is to cushion her when she sits (or falls), her lips are for kissing, for smiling, for frowning! The same as boys bodies. And kids clothes should help them do that too; help them climb trees and run around and play. Not pose. I get really choked up thinking about it to be honest. Our main aim in life is not to look good, it’s to live good, if we are lucky enough to be able to.

 The latest figures that surround girls as young as 8 having low body confidence are alarming. What would you have told your teenage self about learning to love your skin?

I wouldn’t have. I would have given her way too much other brilliant stuff to focus on that she’d be too busy to even bother about it! Teach her to ride bikes, to love reading books, to hear music and bands, to do things. Sometimes I feel we need to teach girls, well kids in general, to love their brains, their minds, their emotions, their hobbies, their actions, their passions, their friends, and focus less on skin and beauty altogether. Because most of what we do and what makes us actually happy in life has got nothing to do with our thigh size, our hair shine etc. It’s to do with our lifestyles, our health, our interests, the people around us. The figures are awful, but it’s our fault, our society and the adults in it that allow it to happen.

Kids don’t do that to themselves. When my daughter was a baby, people kept telling me to put her in for photography competitions, bounty baby beautiful prizes or whatever it was; for adverts. Because she had lovely hair, ‘beautiful’ big brown eyes, a lovely color skin people even said. It made me feel sick. The idea of taking a group of babies, babies, and judging them as beautiful or not, ‘good looking’ or ‘not good looking’ enough to sell nappies, wipes, win a baby photo competition, whatever. I think that’s really, really sad.

Last week I got my kids pre-school photographs back. She was made to do about 10 different poses, really posed shots, lying on her front with her hands around her face staring into space. I love her so much, but they were ridiculous, nothing like a child’s pose at all. And the photographer’s letter even said they could retouch and make minor alterations if desired. To a 3 year olds’ school photo! What are we doing? Right now she’s too busy learning to scoot to care. I hope she is always too into something, whatever that might be, to care too much about her looks.

“Smile” is a poem that many adults will connect with, I know I have spent many evenings with my girlfriends getting ready for a big night out. When I consider this now the memories are the ones of us laughing, not feelings of insecurities. What does this poem mean to you?

Pretty similar to you really! I love getting ready to go out with mates. Getting ready is often one of the best parts of the night! But I just wanted to make the point that however fun it is, it’s not the dress or the nail varnish or whatever that actually makes the night fun. It’s your mates. The stories and jokes you tell, the adventures you have. And that’s what you remember. The dressing up might be part of the ritual and a fun part of it, but it’s the smiling and laughter that is where the actual beauty of those moments lie. I remember one night I was running really late from work and I was meant to be going to a live hip hop night. I was so looking forward to it and my favorite emcee was on at 11pm but I had no time to go home and get changed. I almost didn’t go cos I was in my work clothes and not my ‘going out’ clothes. But I did go and I had a great night and it made no difference what I was wearing, or the fact I hadn’t done my make-up. No-one cared and the emcee was brilliant, everyone dance all night. I couldn’t believe I’d made such a fuss about it!

 Finally, what would be your one piece of body confidence advice for the young women out there reading this?

OK, so this might sound weird, but this is the one piece of advice I have ever been given and it has stuck with me like a sore thumb. When I was 14 and at possibly my most self-conscious age, I was sat in my brother’s bedroom complaining that I wanted to have darker skin (I am very pale and freckly), be taller (I’ve always been short) and less flat chested (AA). He was really into Nirvana, trying to listen to his tapes, and his little sister was there, moping about her looks. After about 15 minutes he turned round and said to me ‘Well, Hollie you never will be. You will never be tall and you will never be anything but pale and freckly. Never. Whatever you do, the outcome will be the same. So you can moan and mope and you will still be small and pale. Or you can shut up and stop boring me and go and get on your bike and go see your friends. Cos it doesn’t make any difference to that. You can ride a bike whatever you look like. I look like this and I can still listen to music. It’s all good li’l sis.’

I didn’t really realize my brother was also really, really self-conscious about his appearance then, probably more than me. To me he just oozed cool mainly because he knew everything about every underground music band there was. But he was teased at school for having long curly, red hair, having spots, glasses, all the stereotypes used in those annoying US teen programmes.

What he said really annoyed me at the time, I think I ignored him for a while! But I have never forgotten it because it was and still is harsh but true. I’m 30 now and I am still short and very pale and very freckly and still an A cup bra size but if I ever find myself moping around, wishing for the impossible, I hear his moody 16 year old voice shouting at me: ‘you can carry on moaning or shut up and go out’. And I go and do something I enjoy instead. I read a book, listen to music, see friends, sing, dance, write a poem! Any of the long list of things that have nothing to do with your appearance, which includes most things in life.